American Bladesmith Society Forum: Integral Bolster Forging - American Bladesmith Society Forum

Jump to content

  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Integral Bolster Forging

#1 User is offline   Mariano Gugliotta 

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • View gallery
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: 20-May 10
  • LocationBuenos Aires Argentina
  • ABS Rating:Apprentice Smith

Posted 20 May 2010 - 12:21 PM

Hi folks! my name is Mariano Gugliotta, I live and forge in Buenos Aires, Argentina.

This is my first post on the forum and I want to start showing some of my works and the process I use to forge.


This one is a small knife, hand forged integral bolster blade.
Posted Image

Posted Image

And...this is a video showing the way I forged this type of blades.


Hope you find this video interesting and sorry for my english Posted Image

Saludos

Mariano
Mariano Gugliotta
0

#2 User is offline   BrionTomberlin 

  • Administrator
  • Icon
  • View gallery
  • Group: Administrators
  • Posts: 919
  • Joined: 28-December 09
  • LocationNorman, Oklahoma
  • ABS Rating:Master Smith

Posted 20 May 2010 - 07:31 PM

Hello Mariano and welcome to the forum. Really good stuff in the video, thank you for sharing it with us. Very nice knives, and your english is fine.
Best regards
Brion
Brion Tomberlin
Anvil Top Custom Knives
ABS Mastersmith
0

#3 User is offline   Ray Kirk 

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: 15-February 10
  • ABS Rating:Master Smith

Posted 20 May 2010 - 08:55 PM

Hello Mariano,
Very nice job. I watched the video and am very happy to be the owner of an air hammer. It makes forging the integral much easier. The integral, is my favorite style knife. It has all the needs of a using knife in a simple constructed blade. Handle and blade can be formed for specific jobs or just to make it easy to carry and cut.
The only thing you did that I don't do is to fuller the bar before forging the blade. I have watched several other makers and we all have our own methods that seem to arrive at a beautiful finished product. You did very nice job and thanks for the video.
This is my first post so I will go ahead and sign it. Don't know if it has an auto signature yet or not.
Ray Kirk
Ray Kirk, Master Smith
0

#4 User is offline   David Wesner 

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • View gallery
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: 17-May 10
  • LocationCovington Michigan
  • ABS Rating:Apprentice Smith

Posted 21 May 2010 - 04:47 AM

Hello Mariano,
Very beautiful work. Although I'm in the process of accumulating components,I am not the happy owner of a press or power hammer ;) . Could you please post a pic of the fullering tool you used in the video ?


B)
I know not, what course others may take, but as for me, Give me Liberty, or Give me Death
- Patrick Henry, 3-23-1775 -
0

#5 User is offline   Mariano Gugliotta 

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • View gallery
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: 20-May 10
  • LocationBuenos Aires Argentina
  • ABS Rating:Apprentice Smith

Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:11 AM

Thanks for the comments!
Thanks Ray, integral blades are my favorite too.

This video shows how to forged with an hydraulic press. The steps are the same, but faster....



David I don´t have a picture of my anvils fuller. But I found this one in "the internet", the shape is the same.

Posted Image


I used other trick to forge my integral bolsters....




Saludos

Mariano
Mariano Gugliotta
0

#6 User is offline   David Wesner 

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • View gallery
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: 17-May 10
  • LocationCovington Michigan
  • ABS Rating:Apprentice Smith

Posted 22 May 2010 - 07:07 AM

Thank you Mariano :)

I must say, you land some very precise blows with the hammer .....:blink:

Very nice work. Once again, Thank You


B)
I know not, what course others may take, but as for me, Give me Liberty, or Give me Death
- Patrick Henry, 3-23-1775 -
0

#7 User is offline   Lyman Gerrish 

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 15
  • Joined: 17-May 10
  • LocationAloha, Oregon
  • ABS Rating:Apprentice Smith

Posted 28 May 2010 - 08:48 AM

Great thread Mariano thank you
After seeing it I was inspired and and ran out to the shop started forging a Integral Bolster knife(that's a lie sorry I don't run anywhere I walked) I'm happy to say so far so good. I'm not sure how I'm going to square up the shoulders yet I would normally use a jig that works great for flat stock, :) but as it turns out not so great for round :( .
I wondering how you do this do you have a tool to help with this process if so can we get a look at it?

thanks again
Lyman
0

#8 User is offline   Mariano Gugliotta 

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • View gallery
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: 20-May 10
  • LocationBuenos Aires Argentina
  • ABS Rating:Apprentice Smith

Posted 28 May 2010 - 10:14 AM

Hey Lyman! thanks for your comment.

I don´t use any jig for this type of blades...just use a circular stone with well-defined angles and square file.

But there are jigs for this type of blade, I'll see if I can get photos and put them in the forum.

Saludos

Mariano

PD: A better translation By Manuel Quiroga
"I don’t have a jig for that kind of job. It’s done by hand in a bench grinder with a sharp 90º angle stone or a thick disk turning the back of the bolster against the side of the stone. Similar to a horizontal mill but by hand. Some people do this job on the mill, in which case the real challenge is to center the bolster in the plate. "

Mariano Gugliotta
0

#9 User is offline   Ray Kirk 

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: 15-February 10
  • ABS Rating:Master Smith

Posted 19 June 2010 - 09:12 PM

To square up the shoulders of the bolster, I use a hot saw and 2"x4" with holes drilled a short distance in the ends. A little less than the length of the finished tang. I clamp the board in the hot saw and with a well worn cut off disc, cut a groove around the bolster where I want the handle to come to. By bringing the saw down with one hand and turning the knife with the other, you can cut a ring around the bolster about the depth you need. If you cut too deep, you start over. So, be very careful when doing this step of integral knife making.
I have a short video that I am trying to make into a good DVD and am getting closer. The last try I put the handle construction in twice. :)
I hope to have it completed in a couple of weeks. It has been a learning experience for me.
I am blessed with a small lath that I can clean up the bolster with. It will also make the tang perfectly square with the bolster so when you drill a hole in the handle material, it will be a very good fit. Just make sure that the tang ends up in the center of the handle. It is very easy to get it too high and then when you grind the handle shape, you find the glue and tang. :( These are the ones that go into the kitchen and for relatives.
I hope I have been a bit of help for you.
I will be giving a demo on this at the Heartland Hammer in that is being held the 2-3 of Oct. 2010 in Meridan, KS at the home of Steve Culver. If you want to learn how I do it, that will be a great time for learning.
Ray Kirk, Master Smith
0

#10 User is offline   Mike Krall 

  • Advanced Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • View gallery
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 95
  • Joined: 06-June 10
  • LocationLander, Wyo.
  • ABS Rating:Apprentice Smith

Posted 22 June 2010 - 11:05 PM

This is the old Brazilian Bladesmith's integral tutorial... http://web.archive.o...br/integral.htm

Mike
As a person insists they have a right to deny others their individual freedoms, they acknowledge those others have the right to deny them theirs...
0

#11 User is offline   Lyman Gerrish 

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 15
  • Joined: 17-May 10
  • LocationAloha, Oregon
  • ABS Rating:Apprentice Smith

Posted 23 June 2010 - 08:54 AM

After a couple of close call its done this is my first completed forged knife.

Thanks again for this thread Mariano and the videos it helps so much to be able to watch it being done
0

#12 User is offline   Mike Barton 

  • Active Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • View gallery
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 49
  • Joined: 18-May 10
  • LocationWinter Haven, FL
  • ABS Rating:Apprentice Smith

Posted 23 June 2010 - 11:35 AM

Lyman,

I hope my first forged integral looks that good.

I really like that, it's nice and clean.
Mike
0

#13 User is offline   Mariano Gugliotta 

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • View gallery
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: 20-May 10
  • LocationBuenos Aires Argentina
  • ABS Rating:Apprentice Smith

Posted 23 June 2010 - 11:59 AM

That´s great Lyman! :)

Glad my videos could contribute in something.

Saludos my friend

Mariano
Mariano Gugliotta
0

#14 User is offline   Don Andrade 

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • View gallery
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 9
  • Joined: 26-July 11
  • LocationLos Osos California
  • ABS Rating:Apprentice Smith

Posted 04 August 2011 - 08:31 PM

Thanks Mariano,
Great videos and fun thread:)

It's cool to see how others do their integrals.
I started doing them all by hand for many years and more recently had Ray Richards Build me a type of fullering tool (Godzilla the 3-rd). I like the way it starts things off in a very accurate way. I do have to say that forging in the shoulders all by hand gives an integral a different look than when a fulling tool or a press is used. I think there is a time and place for the different styles and looks of each.

For the first 3-years of making knives all I did was forge integrals from round bar....well I did do a few from flat stock too:) They are tons of fun and really hone forging skills in a way that flat stock really will not. It takes lost of focus and continual practice to do them well and to get that metal-mass in the 'choil-area' right under the integral bolster. I am still getting the hang of that and have been trying different techniques.

Here is a shot of the Godzilla with a small sample piece of round bar that I was experimenting on when I first got this monster hardy tool set-up a couple months ago.

Posted Image

I have seen the Brazilian Bladesmith tutorial years ago...and though I have never owned a grinder, I did used to draw the tang out in a similar fashion that they show, but employed a hand hacksaw to do a circumference-cut than file back that angle to get the face of the drawing hammer in there. I quit doing it this way because that sharp angle created a stress-riser and on some larger 7/8" round bar I had a tang tear at the junction....that was two sessions of hand of forge work down the drain, as I already had drawn out a blade pre-form for a large integral dirk..... but I did end up making another knife out of the majority of the material.

I like how the Godzilla or a basic fulling tool will isolate the tang to prep for drawing out by hand. There is more filing involved to get it all cleaned-up, but there are no stress risers that way.

Well, thanks again:) Have fun & I look forward to seeing more of your work.

Here is a little integral I just finished up for a customer. This one was forged out of the last piece of an antique automobile starting crank. I had made several knives out of that same piece of steel & it was good stuff:)

-DON:)

Posted Image
Posted Image

"with malice toward none; with charity for all...." Lincoln
0

#15 User is offline   Kevin Menard 

  • Advanced Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 61
  • Joined: 14-May 11
  • LocationDenton, Texas
  • ABS Rating:Apprentice Smith

Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:11 PM

Wow. Some days this forum makes me want to take up knitting...

I have always loved integral knives and have to try one (when the heat breaks...it's 106 right now and I work in a non AC garage). May I ask what diameter of round stock one starts from for a specific blade width? Does anyone hasve a rule of thumb? And also couldn't you do this from a thicker square stock too?

Thanks
Kevin
"Textbooks and Heaven only are Ideal; Solidity is an imperfect state."
John Updike - The Dance of Solids
0

#16 User is offline   Don Andrade 

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • View gallery
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 9
  • Joined: 26-July 11
  • LocationLos Osos California
  • ABS Rating:Apprentice Smith

Posted 05 August 2011 - 04:30 PM

As far as width in relation to initial stock-size, it really depends on the thickness of the blade you desire and the type of final edge geometry.

I like the .75" stuff to learn on because you get a bit more elbow-room so to speak to work the learning curve. Don Fogg was doing some sweet gent's knives out of .50" stuff and I often diminish my .75" down to around .50"+or- square and go from there....so certainly you can use square stock.

IF using square you can always octagonalize it first before you start the 'pinch' and the drawing out of the blade. This gives some nice reference lines to keep your forging going in the right direction and straight along the way.....straightness is the biggest deal when it comes to integrals and ultimately they take patience and practice, probably a lot like knitting:)

Enjoy:)

-DON:)
Posted Image

"with malice toward none; with charity for all...." Lincoln
0

#17 User is offline   Mike Krall 

  • Advanced Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • View gallery
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 95
  • Joined: 06-June 10
  • LocationLander, Wyo.
  • ABS Rating:Apprentice Smith

Posted 05 August 2011 - 05:07 PM

View PostKevin Menard, on 05 August 2011 - 03:11 PM, said:

Wow. Some days this forum makes me want to take up knitting...

I have always loved integral knives and have to try one (when the heat breaks...it's 106 right now and I work in a non AC garage). May I ask what diameter of round stock one starts from for a specific blade width? Does anyone hasve a rule of thumb? And also couldn't you do this from a thicker square stock too?

Thanks
Kevin


Kevin,

I don't know, I kind of like forging when it's smoking hot... always makes me feel like I've really been doing something... and makes stepping out into the clear air afterwards a cool and refreshing experience... =]

Square stock makes into octagon or rectangular integrals easier for me than starting with round.

First integral I did I calculated area of the round then figured a blade spine and blade depth that I felt was proportionally "right". Like a 1/2" round integral section has an area of 0.1963 sq.in. Around 1/8" - 3/16" spine looks "right neighborhood" to me. Area and volume of a 1/2" round 1" long are same number... one in sq.in., one in cu.in. One inch of 1/2" round is a rectangle 1" x 1/8" x 1.57". One inch of 1/2" round is a rectangle 1" x 3/16" x 1.05". If the blade depth of the 3/16" spine is 3/4"... the length goes 1.4". For the same 3/4" blade depth, a 1/8" spine goes to 2.10" length.

In the end, it depends on what your eye tells you, in relation to what the knife purpose and stoutness requirements are. Person can rough in distal and edge taper, tang, and integral-length volume-calcs (or guesses) and come pretty close to "actual" metal needed... handy for doing them out of damascus and avoiding ground-to-shape look if a person starts from a preconceived notion.

That's just me jumping through my own hoops... lots of ways to see it. Like in the Brazilian Blade Smith's Integral Knife link I put up earlier in the thread... start with 1" round and make anything you can imagine... =].

Mike

PS... took me so long to say this on my computer, Don said it easier... =]
As a person insists they have a right to deny others their individual freedoms, they acknowledge those others have the right to deny them theirs...
0

#18 User is offline   Kevin Menard 

  • Advanced Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 61
  • Joined: 14-May 11
  • LocationDenton, Texas
  • ABS Rating:Apprentice Smith

Posted 05 August 2011 - 07:52 PM

Thanks Gents,

That all makes sense. As soon as the heat breaks...

Kevin
"Textbooks and Heaven only are Ideal; Solidity is an imperfect state."
John Updike - The Dance of Solids
0

#19 User is offline   Mike Krall 

  • Advanced Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • View gallery
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 95
  • Joined: 06-June 10
  • LocationLander, Wyo.
  • ABS Rating:Apprentice Smith

Posted 05 August 2011 - 07:54 PM

View PostKevin Menard, on 05 August 2011 - 08:52 PM, said:

Thanks Gents,

That all makes sense. As soon as the heat breaks...

Kevin


Oh you wuss!!!... little heat stroke never hurt anyone... =]

Mike
As a person insists they have a right to deny others their individual freedoms, they acknowledge those others have the right to deny them theirs...
0

#20 User is offline   Jason_E_Stone 

  • Active Forum Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 25
  • Joined: 04-February 12
  • LocationAndrews, South Carolina
  • ABS Rating:Apprentice Smith

Posted 04 February 2012 - 08:11 PM

I'm new here. I'm from South Carolina. Anyway, Iv'e done knives and a few small swords, but Iv'e never done an integral. I think if you wanted to square up your bolsters while in forge you could just make a custom monkey tool to do it. Monkey tools help in making tenons like for rod iron gates and such. You could just make your own custom one to slide down over your knives tangs in order to square up your bolster. You use monkey tools on hot metal. Just my two cents.
0

  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users